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I love the idea of the Vortech S/C. It looks good and I trust Perrin with their tuning, but I doubt I will be purchasing now. One of the things that concerns me is that no one is willing to put performance numbers behind their performance parts. I think it is great that companies say we put this on the dyno and we are getting 50hp, but how does that translate to performance? I emailed Perrin and asked if they would be willing to share some 0-60 and 1/4 miles times with the S/C and they said no. Based on the list of recommended parts Perrin is suggesting it comes to well over $6,000. I'm just not willing to spend that kind of money without knowing exactly what I'm getting from a performance standpoint. I purchased the Perrin Cat-Back and Pulley and found very little performance improvement and while I believe the S/C would be a completely different story I'm not willing to take the chance for that kind of money. I'm interested in what everyone else thinks here. Am I way off track? Is anyone else going to spend $6K without knowing what they are going to get or is the HP numbers enough?
 

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Chris, I'm not really interested in the S/C, but there are a number of calculators available online that will convert horsepower, torque, etc for you. For instance,

0-60 mph Calculator for Cars

Not a perfect solution, but an extra 50 HP on the BRZ is probably worth about .3-.5 seconds. Is that worth nearly $6k? Don't know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Acceleration times have too many variables for a manufacturer to consider, driving being the biggest one. 80whp over stock is a SIGNIFICANT increase in power (almost 50% over stock). Dynos are the best way to measure hp and tq for potential buyers. You can't expect a catback to make much, and you can't expect a pulley to make anything. They are bolt-ons and will only make power based on what is held back in the stock system. A S/C is a power adder, like turbo or nitrous. Since I've seen people running in the mid 14's stock, I'd expect this kit (with an exhaust and other supporting mods) to go deep into the 13's or even high 12's. It's all going to be about the driver, and the tires you use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Also, when it's all said and done I'm probably going to end up spending way more than $6000 on my car. I'd say north of $10000 with wheels, suspension, boost, exhaust, cooling system upgrades, and more expensive, stickier rubber. I'd suggest running an oil cooler with the s/c and a heavier oil too. So if $6000 sounds like a lot, don't do it. It's really not though. Turbo kits for this car are running nearly that much with a tune, then you still need an exhaust. You're also only looking at a few hours install here (2-4 I'd say depending on skill) whereas a turbo will take a lot longer.
 

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Also, when it's all said and done I'm probably going to end up spending way more than $6000 on my car. I'd say north of $10000 with wheels, suspension, boost, exhaust, cooling system upgrades, and more expensive, stickier rubber. I'd suggest running an oil cooler with the s/c and a heavier oil too. So if $6000 sounds like a lot, don't do it. It's really not though. Turbo kits for this car are running nearly that much with a tune, then you still need an exhaust. You're also only looking at a few hours install here (2-4 I'd say depending on skill) whereas a turbo will take a lot longer.
From what I've read about the Vortech SC its sealed and there's no option to run an external oil cooler with this unit. That's a big concern for me...

Also, for those concerned with price, expect to pay close to $4200 from Perrin (as per Jeff on another forum's thread) and additional if you don't already have an ecutek license. Total package with tune/cable/license is $5k. It's a very straightforward 3 hour install with full instructions.

From a power delivery standpoint I'd say this is the kit for me as its very linear and builds upon the motor's strong points and adds a solid chunk of power. I wouldn't turbo this car because I didn't buy it to go straight. The abrupt hit from a turbo mid corner can really throw the chassis around and ruin the great characteristics this car is praised for. Turbos also generate a ton of heat.

My two biggest concerns will go unanswered for a while..I want to know how this Vortech SC holds up over time on this motor as belt driven centrifugal SC's are hard on engines as they take power to run them where a turbo is spooled by the exhaust which doesn't pull from the motor. The second question goes for either SC or TC...a high compression motor like this generally doesn't like boost in large doses. Most turbo motors run lower compression and higher amounts of boost to compensate without detonation. Yes, I've seen all the turbo videos and dyno runs of FRS/BRZs and just because it puts down some serious numbers for 100 or 200 or even 500 dyno pulls it can't compare to daily driving or track conditions this car will see over the next couple years. As bad as I want to install this kit on my car I have to restrain myself from pulling the trigger. I don't want to be that guy that has to be on the bleeding edge only to be the same guy doing a motor swap in 10k miles.

Lastly, in the scheme of things, 5-6k on mods isn't that much at all when it comes to modding cars. I spent more than that on parts while waiting on delivery of the car and most likely will spend close to $20k on mods before this car is dialed in the way I want it. The good news is that the car was cheap and is paid off so I can throw some $$ at it weekly to make it happen.
 

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I agree with everything you are saying and like you I'm willing to spend the money on the car whether it's $6K or $10K, but I'm not willing to spend it without knowing what I'm getting. I have the facility to do the install so labor is not an issue for me. I'm not about lifting the hood and showing off the S/C and I'm not about bragging about how much HP my car is putting out. I'm all about performance and like most people I want the most bang for the buck. I just think it's ironic that all of these companies build these performance parts, but very few detail performance specifications. If I knew the performance numbers on the turbo vs. S/C and the Turbo at twice the cost made sense from a performance perspective I might pay the difference and get the turbo, but as of now we have very little info outside of expect to get 30-80 WHP. I have a lot of respect for what Perrin does and I do think they are a good company, just not sure I understand why you wouldn't put performance numbers with your performance parts. I certainly understand you would have to write a disclaimer, but it would be a ballpark for all of us.
 

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I have really never seen kits that provide 0-60 times or 1/4 mile times as it is immaterial. The standard industry gauge is SAE adjusted dyno numbers.

Once you over do a characteristic of a car (braking, handling, power) it puts the car out of balance. Then there's also the issue of whether the tranny can handle the significant increase in torque. The brakes with the stock motor output is margin as is (ok if you swap out the pads and go to a DOT 4 fluid). I always start with brakes, then handling, then add power.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
From what I've read about the Vortech SC its sealed and there's no option to run an external oil cooler with this unit. That's a big concern for me...
I wasn't talking about the s/c oil, I was talking about an engine oil cooler which the car seems to need even in stock form.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I have a lot of respect for what Perrin does and I do think they are a good company, just not sure I understand why you wouldn't put performance numbers with your performance parts. I certainly understand you would have to write a disclaimer, but it would be a ballpark for all of us.
Because you can't accurately do that. Dyno numbers accurately measure hp and tq, even very small changes that can't be felt. Acceleration numbers can't really be estimated because there are too many variables. You have elevation, conditions, driver skill, tires, etc etc. Let's say I go to the drag strip and run a 14.5 sec 1/4 mile. It was 90F ambient temps and was run at sea level on that day. Then let's say the next week I go to Colorado ran the EXACT same car there at near the same temps, but elevation is a few thousand feet. The car will automatically run slower because of elevation. See my point? Acceleration will vary car to car, place to place, etc etc.
 

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Having an oil cooler for the engine will be more important. It's something I'd consider if I was to run boost and track the car.
 

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Seriously? Motor Trend and Car and Driver don't have any issues with posting 0-60 and 1/4 mile times on stock and customized vehicles in every single publication. I'm not looking for a NASA certified performance numbers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Seriously? Motor Trend and Car and Driver don't have any issues with posting 0-60 and 1/4 mile times on stock and customized vehicles in every single publication. I'm not looking for a NASA certified performance numbers.
Well, they are magazines with access to a lot of testing facilities and professional drivers. What you're looking for is not in the manufacturer's domain. Not one company I know of has a pro driver pounding out 1/4 mile runs at the drag strip just to please you. I explained exactly why they don't, but you don't seem to want to accept the reality of the situation.
 

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Seriously? Motor Trend and Car and Driver don't have any issues with posting 0-60 and 1/4 mile times on stock and customized vehicles in every single publication. I'm not looking for a NASA certified performance numbers.
Magazines are there to sell magazines and posting numbers the general public can understand is one thing - but it is meaningless. It's like those people who worship Top Gear Fast lap times where one car can do its lap in 50 degree wet conditions with a headwind and be slower than a car (it should be significantly faster than) that had a perfect weather of 70 degrees with a tail wind on the longest straight.
 

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Perrin is selling an oil cooler for the engine oil...might be a worthwhile add on.

Also, to correct my previous post, you can purchase an SC upgrade that has oil lines in/out to circulate. They said in this kit with standard pulley there is no need to add it however.
 
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